Kamber und Toe in/out

    Hmm...i think that manual is very difficult to read and understand :roll:


    According to it the Sturz/Kamber is Front : 1grade +- 30
    Rear: -2grade +- 30


    And the nachlauf/toe is Front: 3grade +- 15
    Rear: 0 grade


    This sounds to me very bad if you drive a lowered car with wider tyres!!!
    This would make it understeer alot and wear down the tyres fast.



    I think its better to have Sturz/Kamber Front: -1.5 grade
    Rear: -0.5 grade
    and nachlauf/toe both front and rear: 0 grade.


    This way one would have more tendensy to oversteer wich is better and the tyers will not wear out so fast.


    Or what do you guys think?

    the figures given are for the original set up , as you mount wider tires in conjuction with lowering and / or stiffening the suspension , the figures may varie
    hence wider tires cause more drag , you will have to compensate by lowering the value of toe out to create a drivable situation.
    i think it is wiser to aproach a seasoned A112 driver with a wider knowledge in this field as there some in the coppa mille for instance.
    or abbi schmidt for i understand he is a master in this topic (A112) , perhaps you could send him a personal note with a question which dates whould apply to your set up.

    To avoid some misunderstandings:


    Vorspur is Toe
    Nachlauf is Castor
    Sturz is Camber


    That would mean, that the original recommendations are:


    Toe Front 0 (+/-2mm)
    Castor Front 1°40 (+/-10')
    Camber Front 1° (+/-30')


    Toe rear 2-6 mm
    Castor rear 0
    Camber rear -20' (+/-20')


    all numbers without load


    This matter has been discussed here already several times, however, you will find lots of different opinions on it.


    Some remarks:
    With normal adjustment procedures you can adjust only Toe and Castor on the front, Camber can only be adjusted by using special screws or some modifications on the front suspension system
    On the back you can adjust Camber and Toe, Castor is not possible and not necessary on the back
    If you lower a car, you have to modify the recommended settings. Take also in mind, that most of the times a lowered suspension will also be more stiffer, so the difference between loaded and unloaded figures become smaller. The next point to remember is, that the Castor changes quite a lot, if you lower the car; most of the people don't care so much about this figure, but it will change the way, how your car will turn into corners. So this figure has to be carefully watched. You see also a quite big tolerance for the Toe adjustments, an adjustment inside the tolerance will give you already a remarkable difference in the driving feeling, esspecially if you have new bushes or harder bushes in your suspension. If you want to adjust the suspension in such a way, that your tires should wear as symmmetric as possible, you should use a temperature meter and measure the temperature on the inside and outside of the tire after driving, with these figures you can try to optimize Camber and Toe; unfortunately a symmetric wear on the tires is not always giving you the best driving performance. Take also in mind, that there is a dynamic effect on the front, if you lower the car, called bump steer. If you lower your car, the steering rack is a different position in relation to the front suspension. That means in case of any movement of the car, for example moving down the left wheel, when driving a fast right hand corner, the changes on the Toe in this moment are different than it was before lowering the car. Ideally the changes on Toe should be nearly Zero, but this is impossible with normal suspension systems, so this dynamic Toe change (bum steer) will also affect the driving performance when driving fast around corners.

    With my 127 I drove:


    Front: Camber 2° negative, 4mm toe in


    Rear: Camber around 3° negative, 2-3mm toe in


    Front axle thus became a bit nervous and my car wouldn't go perfectly straight under hard acceleration anymore. 3° is considered maximum at rear, because grip decreases from there on with street legal tires (Yokohama A008P).


    Riding height and weight distribution also make a great impact on handling and driveability. I went very low at rear (thus keeping reasonable Suspension travel at front) and tried to spare weight at Front (i.e. plastic front hood, spare wheel at the rear, replacing steel bumper mounts by aluminium) and mounting engine as low as possible in the engine bay.


    Whole package gave a almost neutral handling even when applying full throttle (1300cc, around 95HP).


    Thomas

    Zitat von gereon

    stimmt, das hilft manchmal :)



    By the way, there is a mistake in the document, in the Camber description TOP RIGHT and TOP LEFT should be opposite (means Top Right picture shows negative Camber)


    die aussies habe schon länger probleme mit links und rechts, fahr da mal ne stunde in einen kleinstadt ohne von einen angefahren zu werden.....